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Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Hello, I'm Dr. Susan Weinschenk, Chief of technical staff at HFI. Welcome to this live webcast presented by HFI's Usability Broadcast Network. The title of our webcast today is "Who are we designing for? The Generation Dilemma" and I am really happy to have with me today the Director of Technical services at HFI, Katie Hill. Welcome Katie. Katie Hill: Thank you very much. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, before we get started we have a few housekeeping details I want to go through. First of all, I want to remind everyone watching that there is a white paper at the website on our topic that you can download at any time that is a summary of what we are talking about today. Also, we will have Q & A; live Q & A, when we are done with the presentation. So you can submit your questions at anytime by using the button in the lower part of the screen. Also on the screen you will see a link to our new PET course, information about that – on Persuasion, Emotion and Trust, which is one of my favorite topics but not our topic for today. So let's get started okay? Katie Hill: Right, okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, as you know Katie, I have been interested in this topic for what, maybe about a year and a half and you have been helping me out. And this got started when I really started thinking about this. It had to do with my daughter right, who at the time was almost 16 and she wanted to have a birthday party and she said "Mom, I'd like to have a birthday party for my 16th birthday and I thought - isn't this wonderful?" And I'm thinking like, we'll send out invitations and we'll have a nice cake etc. and so I even asked her you know, "What kind of invitations would you like? Do you want to make your own, or shall we buy some at the store?" And she said, "Invitations, what are you talking about? I'm just going to create a Face book event". And I was like "What?" And she was like "Yeah, that's how we invite anyone to anything." And that brought home to me this idea of well, my daughter and I, we are in different generations. So I'm actually in the Baby boomer generation. Something that I don't necessarily like to admit because it's kind of like admitting my age... Katie Hill: (Laughs). Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And my daughter of course, is in the generation sometimes called the Millennia, we are going to call them Net Gen for purposes here. So we know that there are different generations and in fact, there are three main generations that we are going to talk about today in the webcast. There is obviously more than that but we are going to discuss the Baby boomer generation, Generation X and well, what we are calling the Net Gen. Let's talk for just a minute about how we are defining these generations where the Baby boomer, as you can see from this chart, people who are born between 1943 and 1960. Now one of the things we ran into and I know you ran into this when we were working on our presentations over the last year and a half is the definitions are somewhat different depending on which book you are reading. Katie Hill: Yes. It's difficult to get people to agree on exactly what the years are. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yes. Katie Hill: It's not as set definition of what year the Baby boomers begins and when they end. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Katie Hill: So all the definitions of the Baby boomers vary by one... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: A couple of years. Katie Hill: A couple of years, yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But this is, so I...I've settled on these. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: These are pretty much the years that are used in Strauss and Howe, who have written a number of books on this topic and the bibliography for that is in the white paper. And these are years they used, so we're going to stick with these which means the baby boomers right now are aged 48 to 65. The Generation X born between 1961 and 1981, aged 27 to 47 right now and there's the Net generation born between 1982 and it says, I have 1999 question mark on the slide there... Katie Hill: Exactly. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Because you know, still it is 2002 but I'm going to call it 1999 and they are now between the ages of 9 and 26. Katie Hill: And they talk a little bit about generations really liking to be about 20... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah, about 20 years span. So, one of the things I have to say is kind of a caveat ahead of time. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It is people say, "Wait a minute. How can you lump all these people together and talk about them as though they are all one person?" right? I mean are you really going to say that all the Baby boomers are exactly the same and they are not? Katie Hill: Exactly. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But in the readings I have done on this and the exploratory research that we have done in our interviews, we've interviewed many people of all generations, there are patterns. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right and there are discernible patterns. So although this doesn't apply to everyone, I think there really are patterns. Katie Hill: And I think it is important to say to you that one of the things that I fall into was saying "Well, I'm in a particular generation and I don't have that characteristic" and that doesn't necessarily mean that all people, because I behave this way, all Generation X behave that way. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, you just admitted that you're Generation X. Katie Hill: Okay. Well, alright. So, I'm a Generation X. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: We knew she wasn't a boomer. Katie Hill: Well, I'm sadly not a Generation X. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Not a Generation X. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, let's talk about that number as well, okay. So in the United States, there are approximately 78 million Baby boomers. Everybody's always known that's been a big generation but what a lot of people don't realize is that there are 80 million Net Gens so that's actually like a larger demographic than the Baby boomers. And in between are the Gen X which they've always known right that there are as many as them. I don't know if they realize that they were sandwiched on both sides by larger demographics, right? The interesting thing by the way, about the Generation X group is that in the talks that I give on this or other topics, I have been polling and most of the people in the audience are Gen X. Well actually over 50% are Gen X. Somewhere between 50 and 60 %. The rest of the people in the audience are kind of split between the Baby Boomers and the Net Gen. What this means is that the Gen X are doing the interface and website design for these other 2 generations that are much larger than they are. Katie Hill: Yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And that's interesting. Katie Hill: I think that makes the compelling argument about why we need to pay attention to what these other generations are doing in terms of design and on why this topic is of particular significance to us. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Let's take a look at the numbers worldwide, Baby boomers 1.1 Billion, Generation X 1 Billion and Net Gen 2 Billion. It's a huge generation worldwide, even more so than in the U.S. I have an interesting story about when I went to India last March and I was giving this talk or a portion of this in India and I came to the next slide and I saw the term Baby boomers and all of a sudden, it occurred to me that that was probably an American term and that maybe in India they didn't know you know what that meant and I turned to the audience and said, "Have you ever heard of this term "Baby boomers?" and they said "No". And I said, "Oh, what do you call the people that are from this age to that age?" and they looked at me and they said "Parents?" Katie Hill: (Laughs). Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And I was like, "Oh" which was interesting because my audience there was primarily the Net generation. Katie Hill: Oh. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Even, more they were not typical, so I found that in India a lot of the people coming to hear us speak were younger than typically in America. Anyway, so what we're saying then is that there are these different generations. What we are going to talk in our presentations is why they are different in terms of their reactions to technology and websites, right? And then what the heck do you do about it, right? How do you design a website or an interface or a set of interactions if you know you have one generation over another or if you know you've got all three generations coming? Katie Hill: Right, which many of us do. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, so let's start with, the Net Gen. So we decided to do something a little bit different in this webcast. Katie Hill: Right, shake it up a bit. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: We actually invited to join us one person from each generation and we're going to interview them live here unscripted, unrehearsed. Katie Hill: (Cheering) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And the first person we're going to talk to is a person in the Net Generation. Now during the talk and the rest of the interviews, we actually have them in another room soundproofed so that they can't hear our conversations. We've brought our first person in just now and so let's turn to her, alright? Katie Hill: Sure. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, we have here Jill. Come join us. And Jill, welcome. Jill: Thank you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, I want to just talk a little bit about how you use computers. Jill: Okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, I let's... I want you to think about a typical day in the life of Jill, Okay? You've gotten up in the morning and brushed your teeth and fixed your hair and whatever your day is all about, you're getting ready to start. What's the first time that you'd actually use a computer during the day? Jill: I actually, my computer, you know, it sits right next to my bed, so lots of times first thing I do when I get up is just turn it on. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So you haven't even brushed your teeth and fixed your hair. Jill: No. Not right yet. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, so you wake up and away you go and what would you be doing typically? Jill: Well, the first thing I do is kind of scan my homepage. I like to see what kind of like News stories they have. I guess I don't always read the important you know, political insights and stuff like that necessarily you know. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So when you say, scan your homepage, what homepage are you talking about? Jill: I use Yahoo. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, so you have got a Yahoo homepage. Jill: Yeah and there are like a couple articles and sometimes it looks cool and check it out. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Jill: Otherwise the first place I go to is Face book. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, you go to Face book. Jill: Yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And what kind of things would you do on Face book? Jill: I see if anybody you know stopped by like my page, stared at my wall, anything like that and I check what my friends have done and you know pictures people put up, that kind of checking up on how people are doing. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Jill: I guess that sounds kind of weird like I'm stalking them. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: (Laughs). Jill: I'm not, I promise. (Laughter) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, about how long would you say you spend on your computer in that first morning time? Jill: I probably spend...I mean it depends on if I have somewhere to be right away... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah? Jill: Definitely at least half an hour, sometimes an hour because you know, from Face book I'll go onto other things. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Like what? Jill: Like checking my email which seems like it's not even the first thing I would do and there are just a couple of sites I visit a lot that update every day. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Like? Give me an example. Jill: There's this one website that has, it's got political pictures, like you know, like the candidates and that kind of stuff or of soldiers and they just put these captions on them. I mean it's just meant to be a joke and... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So it's like silly. Jill: And it's like so funny, yeah. And it's just something like to get me to laugh and start my day off like that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Ok, so you might go visit that. Jill: Yeah and also I really like this website called Citizen WauSau. I think it's about a year old now and it was just started so people in this area could kind of you know, they could blog and get together and find out what... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, it's kind of like for Central Wisconsin. Jill: It's a community. Yeah, yeah, and that's cool. So I go and check that out. They always have like really interesting stuff just from different areas in town so that's cool. Other than that, I just kind of cruise around and you know, there's one website I go to a lot, it's IMDB. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Jill: It is Internet Movie Database and I will check that like compulsively when I'm watching TV or when I'm watching a movie. If there's somebody and I say "Oh, I've seen them somewhere" I go and look them up. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, it has information about movies and actors. Jill: Yeah, just stuff like that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, so you've got your morning time. When you cruise around and check things out and now you really are going to go and fix your hair and brush your teeth. Jill: Yes. Yes. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright so, then what's another part of your day that might involve computers. Jill: I guess if I'm bored I'll go on during the day you know or... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Now, are you a student or do you work? Jill: I work right now. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You work right now. Jill: So when... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do you use a computer at work? Jill: No, no generally I don't. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: No. Okay. Jill: When I come home I check Face book again because you never know what changed during the day I guess. It's kind of a compulsion. And I also use like AOL instant messenger, MSN messenger. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Jill: Because that's the time you know you get like 7, 8 in the evening and that's when most people are done with school for the day or done with work and people are online and you can just like chat. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, then you'd be chatting. Jill: And it's really easy to keep in touch with people that way. I like doing that so. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Any other websites that you want to tell us about that you use or you know any hobbies or activities you do that involve websites? Jill: I guess not really. I go on YouTube a lot and I have friends who put stuff on there. I've actually have been trying to figure out how to get into doing that because... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So you haven't done your own video. Jill: No. Not yet, but I'm trying to figure out kind of how because all through high school I always liked to make these little movies with whoever I could dig up around town and stuff and I really like doing that so I was hoping that we could start doing stuff that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Create some movies. Jill: Yeah, that'd be cool. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do you think that the way that you use technology is different from people of other generations like maybe your parents or your grandparents? Jill: Yeah, I think it is. I think more for well, I mean using my dad as an example, I know usually what he does when he goes online, he will like check his work e-mail and see you know what he needs to if he needs to do anything with that and other than that he just, he does research for work and sometimes he does some of the same stuff I do. He doesn't have Face book. He would have no idea what to do with that and this is kind of interesting to see how that's different and my grandparents don't even - they have a computer and I don't think they really know how to use it. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: They don't know much, Alright, good. Well, thank you very much for joining us. Jill: Thank you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, Katie you were listening. Katie Hill: I was. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right and did you take some notes on and what do you think? Katie Hill: I did and I thank Jill for her willingness to be open and tell us a little bit about her experiences. Based on a lot of the research that we worked on and we have studied quite a few Net Gen people and Jill, I think, is very common in her behaviors. I think there are a couple of things that she said that really stood out to me, in particular, the fact that she has her computer by her bed. I can't think of how many young people are sleeping with their computers. I know I'm not. I know you probably aren't as a Baby boomer. I think the fact that she's going out to spend time. You know she said "I go out there when I'm bored" to spend time, to look for things that are silly, to make her laugh, to start her day off in a good way. You know just to kind of it's more a part of her day, almost just streamlined. Just to, kind of be there. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right, right. Katie Hill: I also find the fact that she stated while she's watching TV, she'll look stuff up. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Katie Hill: Which also goes to show that she's not just going to the internet to do a task or to get something done, it's part of her other activities. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Her...her... Katie Hill: And that makes her very much a typical Net Gen. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Net Gen...Okay. Katie Hill: And based on what we found with other Net Gen, I think that she was very typical and the places that she was going - places like Face book, very community oriented, cruising around social networking sites like Community WauSau. You know really wanting to be a part of something is very typical of Net Gens. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, we're just about ready for our next person, our Generation X. Anything that we should look for here? Katie Hill: Well, I think it would just be interesting to notice that Generation X people kind of bridge the two gaps. They're going to have some qualities based on our research of the Net Gen and some of the boomers but then their own unique qualities too as well. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, let's see how this goes. Katie Hill: So, keep an eye out for that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, so our next person that we're going to be interviewing is Alyssa and welcome Alyssa. Alyssa: Thank you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alyssa is, we would say is in Generation X, right? Alyssa: Okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You may not have heard of that term. Alyssa: Yeah, I got you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, what I would like to do is just talk for a few minutes about how you use computers. So, let's think about, it's the start of a typical day, alright? And you get up in the morning and you brush your teeth and fix your hair. Alyssa: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: What is the first time you are likely to be on a computer at the beginning of a typical day? Alyssa: Well, it probably depends on earlier in the weekends on Mondays and you know sometimes Tuesdays depending if I have any fantasy players playing in my fantasy football league...(Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: I usually check the computer potentially before I go in the shower because I have got to see if I won my match up for the week so, and then I also work in internet marketing for example, this week we re-launched a website and we re-designed the site and we usually do those launches overnight so first thing that morning, I go into the computer... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So this is before you've brushed your teeth and... Alyssa: Yeah, before I even do that. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Where is the computer in your home? Alyssa: Well, I have a laptop but we also have a desktop in the office that's in a room next to our bedroom. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: So both styles, so if it's not a morning I have something urgent I have to do, usually I'll get ready and the first thing I do when I get to work is turn on the laptop. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, so there are some days when you... Alyssa: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Might be checking the computer and doing things on your computer before you go to work. Alyssa: Yup. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And other days when maybe you don't. Alyssa: Yup. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay and then you use the computer at work. Alyssa: Yup. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Like all day long? Alyssa: Yeah, most of the day. I mean I do...I probably spend depending on the day about half of my time in meetings and half of my time at my desk doing work at a computer. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, and what kinds of software programs are you using? Are you on the internet? Alyssa: Yeah, a lot on the internet sites I'm a co-manager for some of the websites that we manage like footlockers.com and footlocker.com and the websites that are for work Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: And you know also using correspondence pretty much almost exclusively for email in this day and age even If I'm communicating with the guy sitting next to me most of the times we're sending emails. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah, yeah. Alright, let's go back then to using computers not at work. Alyssa: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, tell me about the rest of the typical day. Alyssa: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Would you be on the computer when you go back home? Alyssa: Yeah, a lot of times well, a lot of times I'm at the computer at work I'll do a lot of my personal internet usage. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right... So what sort of things are you doing? Alyssa: Recently, I've been doing a lot of travel planning. It seems like we've had things coming up where we need hotel rooms and stuff. So I pretty much do all that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: This is for you and your family. Alyssa: Yup so I usually go to Kayak.com which is where I start which is kind of a comparison travel site that we needed a hotel for example in Chicago two weeks ago. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: So it's like "okay, who can I find that has a good deal?" Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: And so compares you know Orbitz and Travelocity and Priceline and all the different websites and that's fast. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: I spend quite a bit of time doing that. I actually spend some time on Face book. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: Recently, probably in the last 9 months maybe, 12 months joined Face book, more originally as a research kind of thing for work. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: For your work, okay. Alyssa: And I ended up, you know, pretty soon everyone's asking me to be my friend and you know, you kind of get sucked in...(Laughs) So, now I you know get a lot of updates from people and pictures and things so I spend some time there. Like I said, I play a lot of fantasy sports, so lot of you know, couple of days a week I'll be adjusting things. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alyssa: So, that's my fantasy sports team. So I have a baby site that I created so I'm expecting a baby. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You're expecting a baby, right. Alyssa: I had a site that I created to give updates to my family and friends about that so it has like a journal where I'll post entries and then pictures and updates about mostly I guess pictures and journal entries and then people can respond in the guestbook when they can come visit my site and you know leave a little note there. So I've been spending some time updating that and so that was through a company called babysites.com that has a template basically so it's really easy for anybody to go in and just say I want to create a site and here's what I want it to look like. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right, now do you use a computer, would you say you use a computer while you're doing other things? Like would you use a computer while watching TV and other things? Alyssa: Yeah, yeah. So, like I said I do have a laptop so a lot of times, yeah. If I am watching TV specially, if I am watching sports at all on the weekends, once again, going back to the fantasy thing. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You are really into this fantasy thing. Alyssa: Yeah, yeah I know. (Laughter) Alyssa: It's the second year I've done it, but it's not going so well for me this year. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Oh okay. Alyssa: But, yeah I'll be looking up at stats and stuff or corresponding with people through email even. Once in a while doing a little bit of work email and stuff because you know can't get away from it these days I guess (laughs) but it makes it more pleasant. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And what about...do you think that other generations like people that are younger than you and people that are older than you -do you think that they use technology similarly to the way you would if you look at people who are younger if you look at your parents? Alyssa: Yeah, I would say I think people who are younger use it even more. For example, my sister is younger than I am and she now has a data planner on her cell phone. You know I mean I have a mobile phone but I don't have internet access through my phone yet so that's something that you're seeing more trends with younger consumers and I think she even I mean like I said, I kind of use Face book a little bit to correspond with people but I think that generation is even more so and when she updates her little status on what she's doing you know, several times a day. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, you know don't do that on Face book? Alyssa: (Laughs) No, mostly just keep track of you know, people are sending me a note and stuff. It's more incoming I would say with me and she is requesting more friends and posting updating pictures. I use it more a source to get information but then it's like looking at older people I think you know it kind of varies a little bit I would say mostly, I don't think as many of the older demographic, I know are not into multi-tasking quite as much I think it's kind of if they are using the computer it's in an office you know, even if it's a home office, it's more of a single... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Doing one thing at a time. Alyssa: Doing one thing at a time and I know, I feel even laptops are becoming more common in general, but I think some of - like my parents and aunts and uncles and people are using desktops more so than the newer generation. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Well, thank you very much for coming in. I appreciate it. Alyssa: You're welcome. Thank you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Katie, you took some notes here again? Katie Hill: Yes, I feel like a commentator at a football game. (Laughter) Katie Hill: Now let's talk about that play. Thanks Alyssa. I think I couldn't have paid these people to be more typical of their generation. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You didn't like, feed them a script before. Katie Hill: I didn't. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: She didn't actually. Katie Hill: I was sweating that they wouldn't be typical but they are being extremely typical of their generation. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Now, this is interesting because, and I know when we were looking for people and trying to find people and Alyssa is young, she's almost borderline... Katie Hill: She is. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Net Gen and we were quite concerned that she would not be typical of Gen X but what do you think? Katie Hill: I think she is very typical and the reason I say that is a typical Net or Generation X profile is very focused around work usage. They are doing a lot of work, internet browsing, they are doing a lot of emailing, and multi-tasking, she took the words right out of my mouth. You know they are doing work things, spending a lot of time for personal hobbies might be the other thing that they are doing, but they are not living the internet experience like the Net Gen people are. It's more of a "help me get things done", "help me multi-task" "help me you know, make my life a little bit easier." Katie Hill: And balancing kind of their lives with it. Katie Hill: You know their work life balance. So I would say I think she was right on when she was saying that you know the younger generation is using it more and for different things maybe a little bit more socially whereas the Generation X is really using it still very functionally and using it to get things done. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I thought it was interesting when she said she is on Face book but then she said well, I don't put all my information out there. I just go, you know, I use it to collect information. Katie Hill: And I have to say people who know me now, I started off too, "Let me see what this Face book thing is about" and all of a sudden now I have like 15 you know, 16 people from High School that I haven't talked to in many years since High School. I'm not going to tell you how many that was, but it's been a while and it's kind of addictive you know "Oh, I want to see what they look like now" and what they're doing and it becomes this kind of interesting time suck and you see what happens with it but I'm definitely not on it updating my status 4, 5, 6... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Some people are 10 times a day. Katie Hill: Yeah, I'm not treating my status on Face book like a lot of people are, Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: So Alyssa I think was very prototypical of the Generation X. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, we're just about ready for our last interview person who is our Baby boomer. Katie Hill: Yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Anything we should look for here? Katie Hill: Well, I think that you're going to see one of the starker contrasts now with the Baby boomers, especially if you think more back to our Net Gen and think about... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Think about the difference there. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, go ahead. Katie Hill: So, our baby boomer and the way that he is going to be using the internet, is going to be very different from the other ones. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, we're going to find out. Hi Ned! Ned: Hi! Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Come on in. Ned: Thanks. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And you need to come real close, so that I get you in the camera. Ned: Ok, there we go. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So don't be afraid of me here. Ned: Good. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So thanks for joining us. Ned: You're welcome. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: What I wanted to do is talk to you about how you use computers in your daily life. Ned: Okay, sure. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I want you to think about a typical day, alright. You get up in the morning, brush your teeth, fix your hair, shave whatever... Ned: Sure. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And, what would be the first time in a typical day that you would actually be using a computer? Ned: I often get on to the computer after breakfast if I have enough time, if I don't have my early morning classes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You teach college? Ned: Yeah, I do teach at a college. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, if you're not teaching early that morning, then after breakfast you might get on the computer. Ned: Sure. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. And what kind of things would you be doing on the computer. Ned: I would often do things like pay bills electronically for credit cards but that's only once a month. More often I would do things like visit my fidelity site which I check my mutual funds and stocks. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Which we don't want to look at these days. Ned: It's been really bleak lately but I try to keep track of things even if it's not very good. (Laughter) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You kind of do it in the morning so you're not tempted to have a glass of scotch while you're doing that. Ned: (Laughs) Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, so you might check your portfolio. Ned: Right, then I might also check my email and that might follow up with a website visit. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And what kind of websites might you visit? Ned: The Sear Club website because I'm on a national committee for Sear Club and that might quite result in follow up to the visit to the website. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Alright, so that all might happen after breakfast and before you go to work? Ned: Before I go to work. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Then you're going to go to work at the college where you teach. Ned: Sure. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do you use a computer while, during your day at work? Ned: I do every day and I check email there quite a bit. There's a lot of within the university community, a lot of email floating around that needs to be answered. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Ned: Such as meetings, schedule times and "can you meet here?" and "let's make sure we make this meeting" and it's all that kind of stuff. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Ned: And discussion. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Any other software that at work you would visit, any websites at work that you would visit? Ned: I visit the desiretolearn website. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Ned: Through the University of Wisconsin system and that way I can post things to all of my students. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Ned: Announcements - like "make sure you bring this handout to lab today", that kind of thing. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay and then...and now, when you're at work do you sometimes get on the computer and get on the internet and do personal things? Ned: I do, sometimes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay and what kind of things might you be doing? Ned: Maybe, if it's the end of the day I might see how the stocks are doing once again. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: (Laughs) Okay. Ned: Oh no! It's another disaster but I check things like that pretty often and I might check other things like Wisconsin public radio might have a particular guest and I might want to see, well what book did they write? And I want to see a little bit more about them by a write-up on WPR website. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, now after work, in the evenings, would you use a computer, then? Ned: Yes, and a lot of that time would be on email and the email again would be all of various organizations like Autobahn Society and... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, that wouldn't be your work. Ned: Not so much. No. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, that would be more of your personal email. Ned: My personal email in the evening. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Any other favorite websites or activities that you do on the internet or on the computer, you mentioned checking your stocks, you mentioned paying bills, email, anything else? Ned: Probably the National Public Radio and Wisconsin Public Radio. I like visiting those websites. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Those are the ones that you visit the most. Ned: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do you have...do you use technology besides computers? Do you have a cell phone? Do you do internet on your cell phone, that kind of thing? Ned: I don't use internet on my cell phone. I use the cell phone but not every day and my cell phone crashed. My wife had one and we share one back and forth. So, some days she has it and some days I do. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Ned: But I'm not glued to my cell phone like some of my students are. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: (Laughs) Ned: They come in and they take photographs through the microscope ... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: They use that to study. Ned: Of what they want to learn. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, now that's efficient. Ned: Yeah. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, you...you're around students a lot. Ned: I am, and they get phone calls in my class which I tell them not to do. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: In your class? And you're not happy about that? Ned: No, I'm not. (Laughter) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, what do you think is a difference between generations - your students versus you or even you versus an older generation? Do you think there are differences in the generations in the use of technology? Ned: I do. I see real big differences. I don't go to Face book and I don't do text messaging back and forth all day long like I see my students doing all the time. It's really traumatic. Ned: They do a lot of that text messaging and they can hardly wait till class is over so they can get to their cell phones, it seems like they are slaves to their cell phones. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: (Laughs) Ned: I would like to have a break from it once in a while not absolutely glued to my computer all the time. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Good. Ned: So, there's quite a big difference between the generations. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, great. That's all we need to ask you about here. Ned: Okay, great. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Thank you for coming. Ned: Thank you. You're welcome. She's got a smile on...(Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, Katie...more notes. Katie Hill: Yes, more notes. So, I think again, very typical. That is a typical Baby boomer in many ways. Luckily you know all of our...all the people we spoke to had access to computers obviously all the day long. He was a professor and he had access to you know, being able to be on the computers, to be on the computer to pay his bills, to visit his sites. I think Baby boomers you know in general, you know you have a set towards the 1943 born that might not have computers as part of their daily life as much as like someone you know. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. So, some boomers are on the computer more than the others. Ned is on the computer a lot but we can still see that his use of the computer is different. Katie Hill: It is different. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Than Alyssa or Jill? Katie Hill: Right. Definitely, I think one trend is that with Baby boomers tend to stick with what they know and he had certain sites that he liked and that he's stuck with. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And he is on those sites a lot and that is one of the things we've seen a lot when we've been interviewing other people. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It's like the younger you are, the wider the range of the sites you go to and the older generations tend to stick with certain sites that they know, those are the ones they go to all the time. Katie Hill: Right, right. And are less likely to kind of wander around looking for new things, they kind of find things and will put up with something that they don't necessarily like, in terms of design or function. If it is something they are interested in or it is something that they you know, really care about which I think is a pretty interesting thing too and I think you know, not being glued to technology, wanting to take a break from it, kind of seeing it... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, now that's interesting...and this is something I talk about a little in the white paper because I think we - when I first went into this idea and started giving talks on this I realized just the way I thought about computers was different. I mean just the fact that he would say, "well I wouldn't want to be glued to the technology, I would want a break from it" is such a different mindset than someone who is younger and is living and the technology is not separate from them. I like to talk about it like a pencil you know, I wouldn't talk about the fact that I need to take a break from my pen, right and not be glued to my pen. Katie Hill: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I wouldn't even you know. It's just a pen; you just pick it up and use it as part of your life. You don't even think about it. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And I think for the Net Gen that's more like what the technology is for them. Katie Hill: Exactly. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Not true for me, as the Baby boomer. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So... Katie Hill: I think that's absolutely true. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, now that we've talked with these three, and we've got a little bit of a sense of this, let's...I'd like to spend a little bit more time talking about each generation and I want to go into what do we do about design. So, would you spend a few minutes talking about - let's go back to the Net Gen. Katie Hill: And talk about the design elements for each? Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah. Katie Hill: Okay, So... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: If you're designing for a Net Gen what do you do? Katie Hill: I think that there are some instances when you know that the Net Gen is going to be your audience and if you know that that's your audience, there are certain things that you need to consider. One of the things that we found out especially when you're not a member of the Net Gen is that there's a lot going on out there that we are not aware of and this particular slide we can see, it is just a sampling of some of the sites that exist out there that in terms of social networking, communities, different types of technology. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It's not just Face book. Katie Hill: It's not just Face book, although Face book is very popular and very prominent. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Katie Hill: There's a lot of things going on and if you're not aware of them, you can't use them and you know your users might be using them. So, I think becoming aware of what's out there and what technologies are being used by...? Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, your saying, if your designing for the Net Gen, you better go and you're a Gen X or a Baby boomer you'd better widen your horizons and realize all the different things they are looking at. Katie Hill: That's right. And I think the only way to do that, quite frankly is to spend a lot of time with the Net Gen and to really understand what they are doing on their devices and what they are doing with their time because it's not as easy as doing traditional usability testing and sitting them down with a website and saying how do you use this because they are not using websites the same way that the Baby boomers or the Gen X are. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, you're saying the context is really important and we did little 5 minute interviews. We're not going to get all the data we need from that. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: We would need to go and spend a day with them. Katie Hill: Exactly. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And see how they are really using the technology. Katie Hill: Right. It's really about living the life and I think in my mind, that I'm 18 years old but I'm not. And the way that they're living is not how I was living when I was 18. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: I didn't have email. So, I think I'm pretty hip but I'm not. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It's not the same. (Laughs) Katie Hill: Sadly...anyhow, of course there is Face book and even though I am on Face book and this happens to be my friend Maisie's page but even though I am on Face book, I'm still only using a little bit of it. There are a lot of things going on in Face book that I'm not using. The events, the videos, the social calendars, the invites, there are videos. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, if you were having a birthday party you would not put your invitation on. Katie Hill: Well, I might have to, If I was going to invite some young people or else no one would come. (Laughter) Katie Hill: But you know there's a lot going on and I think you know, knowing how these apps work and within Face book there are apps that you can design that go within this application. This idea of embedding applications within applications is kind of a new idea. So really exploring how people are accessing new applications and new technologies is key if you are designing for this generation and also not forgetting about texting and how information is virally spread amongst this particular demographic is key. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Now, one of the things as we move forward and we're going to talk about Gen X and Boomers but one of the things I want to point out is in the work we've done is how there are some basic usability and design factors that actually hold. I mean even though - so interestingly the Net Generation we found in some of the studies we've done - they like pictures, they like things moving, they like animation and the boomers don't but everybody said "Oh, I don't want the font to be too small". Katie Hill: Right. I think that's true. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, there are some commonalities there. Katie Hill: And I think that there are certain things too that we're going to talk more about it but that there are certain things that have become de-facto standards. That if you mess with them, even the Net Gen is going to be messed up. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: We don't want to be messing with things that work. Especially when it comes to matters of money, finance... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, so we'll come back to that. Katie Hill: And we'll going to come back to that. So, all of you in the financial sector and the banking industries don't panic, we're going to talk about that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, let's go and talk in general about Gen X and designing for them. Katie Hill: Okay, so I have a slide in here that kind of shows a bevy of Gen X sites and really thinking about them is these, these pragmatic but tech savvy people is really helpful and very important. You know, they're there at work you know on the slide, banking, maybe shopping a little bit, and doing research...lots of research. They're reading information, they're out there doing things, but it's still more of a hunt and peck, you know... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Like Alyssa said at work, she was going to the travel site to setup her travel plans. So that's a pretty typical Gen X thing. Katie Hill: It is and I think even at my job if I'm downloading something, I'm multi-tasking. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You sure you want to let me know that. (Laughter) Katie Hill: No, probably not. I mean, at my free time... (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, that's better. Katie Hill: In my free time, I'm doing that but I'm doing things at the same time with multiple browsers open, you know I have multiple tabs on my Firefox browser open. I'm doing many things, many times. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, the Gen X are for the most part, tech savvy, comfortable with that kind of multi-tasking but it has a pragmatic practical bent. Katie Hill: Yeah. I think most of the time it does. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: What that means is - I think a lot of times for the Gen X that we are falling back on a lot of our tried and true usability principles and really making that people can get to information quickly. They are not spending time having fun as much as the Net Gen are. Not to say that they are not ever, but when it comes to getting things done, shopping, financial things, you know anything that has to do with insurance or taking care of household boring tasks. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alyssa was doing her fantasy football. Katie Hill: Yeah, I think that you know hobbies are different. Checking ESPN, I have ESPN on here. Hobbies are different. Hobbies can be time... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, Gen X would do hobbies online. Katie Hill: I think they would. Definitely they will. But I think when it comes to the things that are more pragmatic, we fall back on more traditional design. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, alright. Katie Hill: And I have some examples here – TurboTax. You know, I do it myself, the "I'll do it myself" mentality of my generation. You know, I don't want to go to somebody else to do my taxes if I can do it myself. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: TurboTax and Intuit do such a beautiful job of walking me through and making me feel like I'm the smartest tax person on the planet. They are brilliant at that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: Just by walking me through it. We're going to talk abou6t imagery later but on this slide, look at the Gen X imagery on this slide. That is Mr. Gen X sitting right there. So, we're going to talk more about that in a second. Just to flip to the next one. I mean, ESPN, when I did Generation X studies, with gentlemen I got everybody's favorite site being some sort of sports site and ESPN was a big one. So, yes, they will go to their favorite sports sites or in Alyssa's case, fantasy football sites. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Now, for instance one of the things, on an ESPN type site, that the boomers don't like is the moving and the videos... Katie Hill: (Laughs) The moving and the videos. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And the video's starting, you don't even press the video, you just come to the site and the video starts. They don't like that. Katie Hill: Yeah and I'll tell you that this particular site from a usability standpoint violates pretty much every rule that we've ever had ever. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: (Laughs) Katie Hill: And they don't care. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: The Gen X does not care. Katie Hill: Oh, they don't care. They know, especially the particular...all the men that I in particular that I've worked with on this study knew exactly what they were looking for, knew how to find it, understood what was going on. It blew my head. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, it didn't matter that if you know, there's a lot on the screen... Katie Hill: No. No. No. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Because it had the content they wanted. Katie Hill: Yes, it had the content they wanted and they knew how to get to it. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: So, yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright. Katie Hill: And of course, before Face book even became important, LinkedIn was a community that was important to the Gen X in terms of a professional community and I think it has a lot of credibility in terms of you know, providing some sort of professional, I don't know, I don't want to use the word community again but kind of a link between people where I can link up with people from other jobs, I can recommend people. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Now, Baby boomers use LinkedIn, right? Katie Hill: They do, but I still think it's predominantly a Gen X kind of thing because again it's so work-related, it's so pragmatic Dr. Susan Weinschenk: A Gen X thing, right. Katie Hill: And yeah, you're going to find both, you're going to find all three generations in here but just wanted to point that out as another social networking site. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. Katie Hill: And moving on just to talk briefly about Baby boomers, when we were doing our research, there was one particular participant that pulled out the site catalogue choices.com Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah. Katie Hill: And she told me a story about how you know this was the most perfect Baby boomer site ever. And if you look at this site, it's a site where you can come and get rid of catalogues that come to your house and the reason this site is so Baby boomer friendly is because it is simplistic, it's artistically simple to look at, it breaks everything down into 1, 2, and 3. It's safe, it doesn't change. It walks - everything walks them through. It's just so non-threatening and easy and it provides a service that made her happy. So, she comes to this site all the time, whenever she gets a catalogue she doesn't like and I thought that was such a typical Baby boomer design that I put it in here because that to me, exemplifies something that is very utilitarian but very simple and very basic. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Katie Hill: So, I thought that was a good example. And then I put this in here, not to be condescending or in any way, make fun of the aging population but another thing to think about really, is having options for things like you know font size and font options. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And we said everybody - no one likes small fonts. Katie Hill: No, but you can get really big. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But it the – the Baby boomers are going to be the ones that - or above or the older ones are going to be the ones that care the most about it. Katie Hill: Yes, and I just figured out actually on my Macintosh that I can make my screen bigger and when I found that out, I realized that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Are you making your screen bigger? Katie Hill: Hugely. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But you're not a Baby boomer. Katie Hill: I'm not a Baby boomer. But when you find out that you can have that option and it doesn't wreck the design, it's an amazing function and it's command plus if anyone wants to know. (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: If you have a Mac. Katie Hill: If you have a Mac. So, this is another example of you know offering options in your design for a population that might need it. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. So, now the next slide, is because I figure there are people out there that are thinking right about now, if they weren't thinking about it before that these generational differences are just a matter of how old they are. Katie Hill: Yeah, and we... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: That when Jill gets to be my age, she is going to want the simple site and she is not going to want to use Face book very much. You know, she'll use it kind of the way I use it, which is not very often. Katie Hill: In fact, we argued about this, you and I, when we were doing this research because, I was saying well, once people have a family... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It's just because they are young... Katie Hill: It's just because they are young, and they have all this time on their hands, and you said I don't agree with you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I said I don't agree with you. So, let's talk about that, right. And we won't know for another 20 years, right. Katie Hill: Right. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But...and I like to call this the zeitgeist versus the artifact. So, artifact means, it's just an artifact of their age. It's not really a generational difference. It's just an artifact of age. And zeitgeist is no, there are really differences in cohorts or generations that will affect their technologies at least a significant portion of that, will hold over time and that's what I mean by zeitgeist. I don't know if we're going to have a...have you changed your opinion by the way or not? You're still not sure? Katie Hill: Well, the reason that you said, and actually I have changed my opinion and the reason that I've changed my opinion is I do believe, that for the Net Gen, technology is second nature. And I think it's going to change, the way they use it might change but I think the fact that it's second nature is going to stay the same and their interests will change. So, they might not be doing Face book for you know maybe the same things, but they might be doing social networking on a different site or something. It will always be something computer and I didn't believe that before I did the research because I thought, "they will be just like me." But I guess that shows the arrogance of Generation X. But... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I think it's true of every...everybody tends to think they are going to be just like you when they get older. Katie Hill: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But I was very affected by these books on generations by Strauss and Howe that talk about these patterns...these generations patterns actually, they talk about recurring patterns they go back...some of them trace back to the year 1453 – not technology use but the idea that there are generations and there are these patterns in generations. So, I think it's real but we're going to have to wait to see if I'm right or not. Katie Hill: I've always been very offended by the idea that you know, Generation X is the slacker generation and all of that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And I think that's not true. Katie Hill: But I do think that the patterns are interesting and it's interesting to see over time how they evolve and... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Alright, now, the question that we often get and I bet someone if writing in we'll find out but we'll answer now whether they write in or not. What if you have all three Generations, what if you're designing a website and you're going to have all three generations come to the site? Whether you... Katie Hill: Well, I think that most people are in that situation because specially if you have a public face to the world, you know, I don't know what generation people are in. I think that there are a lot of things to be thinking about, one of them really being your imagery. One of the things that we found out talking to young people was the older the image of the person on the site; the more likely they were to be completely turned off by it. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right, so we have to be careful about images. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You know what? I want to speed this up because we have some great questions coming up. Katie Hill: Okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, can we like go really fast through the rest of these slides. What do you think? Katie Hill: So, the speed limo version of what's going on? Okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Yeah. Let's go through it quickly. Katie Hill: Alright, the next one, another example of an old guy on a site that we should be careful about. Esurance, I love this because I cannot imagine Susan wanting to buy insurance form a cartoon character. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I'm not...I'm a...with pink hair...no. Katie Hill: Maybe, this is going in the opposite direction. What's their demographic? It's just interesting to think about. The next three slides I have to put a shout out to my friends at American Family Insurance. Yeah, American Family actually has a rotating graphic right now, showing all three generations and the next three slides show, a Generation Y person, a family which I'm guessing is a Generation X person and then a boomer. I don't understand if they meant to do that. I'm assuming they did but I am proud on them for thinking about it ahead of time. So, you know and then I just put Shutter Fly in here as an example of a very easy to-do site, but also having really thought about plug-ins for things like Picasa and some of the Google images and then we talked a little bit about don't mess with what works. So, things like shopping carts, shopping sites like Macy's. They really...they work, so if you go ahead and change those up too much, people are not going to trust you. So Amazon is kind of like the golden standard and has become the golden standard for shopping, shopping sites on the internet. So, we want to make sure that we don't ...we don't mess with that too much. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And here we have my statement which is "the homepage is dead" which is, I'll just very quickly say, the reason I say that if you might have different generations coming, I think you have to figure out how to bring them into what they need to do and not worry so much about a homepage that appeals to everyone. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, if your bringing them into a banking site, well what do they really need to do there. Why don't you just go do it? If you know what you talked about this connections between the programs...there are people are coming to sites from different places now. There's applications embedded into YouTube, there are RSS feeds. They are not coming in through your homepage. Think more about the page that they are actually coming in to, than what to do with the homepage. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, that was really fast. Katie Hill: Well... QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS:- Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, let's take some questions. First one, I'm wondering how these insights would apply to employees in a large corporation would Net Gens expect our internal sites and applications to have a more social networking approach, how do you do that for internal HR sites or expense reporting applications? So...and we get this question frequently and yes, I think Net Gens are coming into the workforce in huge numbers now and they...they are going to appreciate at least a more social networking approach. You can certainly do that with an intranet and Jerome Nadel, our CXO, has done some wonderful work on this with things being posted on the intranet and then you can comment on the documents that are on the intranet. Katie Hill: Yes, and in fact, Jessie and our Marketing Department actually gave me an amazing article about work that's being done in Ernst & Young about communicating with different generations and trying to get them to communicate better because people are sending emails and getting text replies and how intranets are trying to kind of actually bridge the gap between that by having a you know, a more Net Gen friendly way of communicating, sending things via text message which is important. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Rather than...right. Katie Hill: Right, so that people can receive information in different ways or that you could post a blog about a topic and have people comment on it. I think that that's really important. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, one of the things to think about in terms of methodology is when you're doing design for these, you need to get Net Gen in on the design. Katie Hill: Absolutely. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You need to tap these people at the company and get their ideas. Katie Hill: Ask what they would expect. What would make it easier for them to get that information? Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do you think that our current usability principals won't work well with the Net Gen, given that they like to explore and find things that entertain and surprise them? How does this affect the way we evaluate sites so we don't end up alienating our Gen X users? Katie Hill: Yeah, that's a great question. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, and we mentioned that -so basically, basic usability principles still hold. Katie Hill: Yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But then you have to put stuff on top of it, right? Katie Hill: Yeah. I think it depends too on...on what it is. I think that there is a certain amount of - in certain situations people don't want to play games getting to their financial information. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Katie Hill: Right, they don't want to be surprised about the bank account balance. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. (Laughs) Katie Hill: You know they don't want to be surprised finding out information. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, it still depends on what they are doing. Katie Hill: I think that there are certain things that you know content that's important to them. I've also seen people try to do social networking in places that it's just not appropriate to do it. They put up a big huge effort to put a lot of money into you know, blogging or putting up a huge social network where people won't go. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: In a situation where people don't want to go there. Katie Hill: Right. It has to be compelling and interesting content that people want to contribute to the social network otherwise there's no point. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay. What are the real world learning gaps that Net Gens have as a result of being so glued to technology? Katie Hill: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Is this written by a Gen X or a Baby boomer? Katie Hill: Oh, that's a great question. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Are there skills that they won't be exposed to because they are so tied to computers? Katie Hill: Oh, my Gosh! Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I don't know the answer to that. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if.... Katie Hill: Penmanship. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Okay, penmanship. I have really bad penmanship and I think that....(Laughs) Katie Hill: I'm not sure if it has to do with penmanship anymore. I think it's a great question. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: It's a good question. I'm going to say, the answer is no. Katie Hill: See, I think that there are. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, we don't know that there are. Katie Hill: See I think that there are...wait, let's go to etiquette school. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Look. Katie Hill: Texting while you're talking to somebody. They need to learn their etiquette. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: This sounds like a real Gen X speaking. Katie Hill: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: We are going to come back to this question in about 2 years. Katie Hill: I'd love that question, whoever wrote that in, that's brilliant. DR. SUSAN WEINSCHENK: I didn't hear any mention of mobile devices to access the web, such as the iPhone. It would be interesting to know how the different groups are using mobile devices. I think it was a little bit of touching on that with our interviews. Definitely the different groups are using, I mean, the Net Gen are using mobile devices as much as they can. Katie Hill: I think the Gen X group is in a lot of ways too, not as much as the Net Gen. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And the Baby boomers a little bit. Katie Hill: Yeah, I think that the texting aspect of things is something that's happening in Europe a lot more... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And Asia. Katie Hill: And in Asia and definitely in our younger people whereas access to mobile applications is something that I think is, I think we are just starting to be on the cusp of here. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: In the U.S. at least, I mean in Asia, it's a way that a lot of people interact. Katie Hill: We're a little behind. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right. Within the generations do you see gender differences and are these gender differences stark or slight? You know this is such an interesting one and we have seen them. We have not seen them in interviews that we've done. Katie Hill: No. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I haven't, we haven't or you and I haven't actually I haven't even read any research recently at all about gender differences on the internet. There used to be a gender gap on the internet, where men were on more, but that's pretty much closed and when we've been interviewing people I do not see gender differences but it's interesting to me. The generational differences are much, you know, very dramatic and the gender differences I just don't see. Katie Hill: I haven't either and we haven't really probed into that. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Except the sites, you know the guys go to ESPN etc. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But in terms of how they are using technology I don't see that. Katie Hill: No. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: My question is about multi-tasking, X and Millennials tend to be good to very good and multi-tasking, boomers not so much. How do we give X and Millennials...remember Millennials being another word for Net Gen, what they expect on a website without overloading the boomers in the audience. So, that's a trick but you can do it. You want to talk a little bit more about that? Katie Hill: I think that it's....I think its key to...it's almost like thinking about....it's almost like thinking about it in layers. What do you give the boomers, you know what do you give everybody upfront and how can you layer things for the audience so that they can get to it in an easy way? That's kind of the way I always think about it. I think that when you think about the content nothing substitutes for good information architecture. Nothing substitutes for very clean, crisp design and in thinking about those things. You shouldn't overload anybody, really. Just making sure that your giving good content for everybody and making sure that the Gen X and the Net Gen people are going to find that content if they want it and the boomers are going to ignore it. They are going in get what they want and then leave and the other people are going to be willing to explore. So, I think it's just a matter of kind of keeping it out of the way. Do you have any thoughts on that? Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You know one thought I had you know, is use the basic information architecture, a really good information architecture, a really good navigation bar. Your Net Gen might ignore that but it's there for the boomers. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, think about it that way, you know, have the things that will attract the Net Gen, they'll go in and get it and find it. They're alright with it being you know, you have a video click and then they go in there. But watch out that you don't have so much going on in the homepage that the boomer doesn't say (Laughs) I'm out of here. Katie Hill: That's right. Yeah, that's right. You need to have crispness of design. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: If you are trying to target Baby boomers for a new service what is the best way to reach them given that they tend to stick with what they already know? Remember what we said, they tend not stick to certain sites, so you have a new site, new service and you want to attract them. Katie Hill: That's a great question. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But they tend to go to their five sites. Katie Hill: Actually when we were doing our research for this originally, one of the things that we asked them was "how do you find out about new technologies?" And the answers were you know, "we kind of find out from people that we trust", so family members, and then through sources that they trust. So, people like Ned or like my dad, NPR you know, like the magazines that they read? Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So you have to go to the places they are sticking to and somehow be able to advertise or market through there. Katie Hill: And if you think of like actually Jitterbug was going with the senior market more so than the Baby boomer market but when you think about Jitterbug, they went for...you know, they advertised on TV. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Well, I was going to say, TV is actually a good place. Katie Hill: TV is a good place but also you know the magazines and interests of the people. It's not necessary online advertising for getting people online. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, it will be word of mouth, but it will be word of mouth in a different way. With the Net Gen it will be viral word of mouth, and they don't have to know the person. Katie Hill: Yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But with the boomers it will have to be more personal word of mouth. Katie Hill: And that's what I was going to say, get them through their kids. You know if you can get it to the kids to say, "hey, get your parents involved in this." Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Might work? Katie Hill: Might work. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Alright, I think we have maybe time for one more question. A few more questions they are telling me. Okay. You mentioned PET design, Persuasion, Emotion, and Trust. Does Pet teach me techniques that address generational differences? I had this question when I gave the talk two weeks ago in Madison, remember someone asked about this? Katie Hill: I do, yes. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: They asked if there were generational differences in the PET work. Let's see, the Persuasion, Emotion, Trust principles work across all generations but some might be more persuasive to some generations than the other. So, let's say you're going to use a particular principle of persuasion like social validation. The way you do that with a boomer might need to be different than the way you would do that with a Gen X or a Net Gen. So maybe we might need to do another webcast on that because it's bigger than we can discuss here. Katie Hill: Yeah. DR. SUSAN WEINSCHENK: How should we incorporate generation characteristics into persona development? And I'll broaden this to say how you incorporate this in general in your user central design process? Katie Hill: Well, I think that interviewing a wider range of people. I think we tend to think we know our users, and that's always the case, right? And since a lot of the time Gen X are the ones developing these sites. We interview people like us. So I think it's just kind of the situation where we need to incorporate people who might be on kind of the other end, so even, in the Baby boomer generation bringing in an older Baby boomer Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And a younger Baby boomer. Katie Hill: And a younger Baby boomer and on the notch end a younger Net Gen. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: But you do see these bleed-overs as you get to those edges. Katie Hill: You do, right. And really incorporating those edges, you know the kind of extreme edges. Maybe not a 9 year old if that's not appropriate but bringing people in and incorporating them and thinking about it from the generational perspective which I don't think, you know a lot of the studies before I did this work, I wasn't even thinking about generational differences before. So I mean in thinking about that and incorporating in a persona even maybe having a little you know note there. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: A generational note. Katie Hill: A generational note. We have created generational personas that we use where we'll say that you know, this is a typical... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: A typical persona a typical boomer, Katie Hill: Right, and you know if you did that in your company... Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Combine that. So you might have a particular persona not to do with generation, but you might want to then add the generational component. In fact, you might have a particular persona, you know let's say you have a corporate...a web designer and that's a persona, you might need to have within that the Gen X web designer, and the Net Gen, right? So within the personas you're used to having, you may need to have more personas to break up some of this generation. Katie Hill: And I think too, we were talking about this earlier, if at all possible have these people incorporated in your design team. You know, have somebody in your design team who represents each generation. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Right, absolutely. I think if you are designing for multiple generations you need those generations on the design team. Katie Hill: And allow the conversations to be spirited about your generation. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And understand that you have certain points of view based on the generation you're in. Katie Hill: Yeah. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: And that may or may not be appropriate for what your designing. Alright, I have our last question. Katie Hill: Okay. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Do these principles and learning apply to generations all over the world or is this strictly based on US research. Does the Gen X, for example, behave the same in Europe and Asia and what about the Net Gen? So, obviously, there are generational differences around the world and I, we have not done cross cultural work, except I have to say that I did talk to some of the young people in India when I was there and besides the fact they didn't know the term Baby boomer, they agreed that there was definitely -they actually agreed with all of this. So I think, a lot of it probably holds, it's not going to hold exactly the same in the different cultures. So you know, cross cultural work which is something that our office in Asia specializes in, would be important to apply. So I think we will have to do more work on that but I will say anecdotally there are generational differences around the world and a lot of this would hold. Katie Hill: I'm waiting for my Euro-rail pass. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: You are? Katie Hill: Try to figure that out. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: We're going to leave the group with some quotes and I love this because this first quote, I always like to end my talk with quotes and pictures and this first one Katie found for me. "One of the best things about getting older is finding your more interesting than the people you meet." And I read that and I went, "I don't know if I will ever get that" and she thought it was hilarious. I don't really get that and then she showed me the next one, "You know you're getting old when you stop to tie your shoe and you wonder what else you can do while you're down there." And I thought that was like really hilarious and she didn't get it. Katie Hill: And I didn't get it. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: I think it was really funny because I'm a boomer. So we realized that these were depending on what age you were. Then we found one we thought everyone could appreciate by Mark Twain. "Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." Katie Hill: (Laughs) Dr. Susan Weinschenk: So, I want to thank everyone for joining us. Let me give you a few reminders, we have our white paper at the website. This broadcast will be archived and available at our Human Factors website in about a week and our next webcast is on November 20th. Please join us for that and we look forward to seeing you there. Thank you. Dr. Susan Weinschenk: Thank you. Katie Hill: Thank you. |
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